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Firearms Magazine ‘Truly Sorry’ for Saying ‘Pocket Sized Machine Gun’ Not for Civilians

US News • September 2012 • Views: 1,864

“[The MP7A1] is made to put down scumbags, and that’s it,” he explained. “Mike Cabrera of Heckler & Koch Law Enforcement Sales and veteran law enforcement officer with SWAT unit experience points out that this is a gun that you do not want in the wrong, slimy hands. It comes with semi-automatic and full-auto firing modes only. Its overall size places it between a handgun and submachine gun. Its assault rifle capabilities and small size make this a serious weapon that should not be taken lightly.”
…
‘First and foremost, I’d like to apologize for any offense that I have caused with the article. With the benefit of hindsight, I now understand the outrage, and I am greatly saddened that it was initiated by my words,’ a statement on Recoil’s website said. ‘I retract what I wrote in the offending paragraph within this article.’

‘By no means did I intend to imply that civilians are not responsible, nor do we lack the judgment to own such weapons, if I believed anything approaching this, clearly I would lead a much different life,’ Tsai continued.

So this guy comes out and tells the exact, honest truth about a concealable, fully automatic firearm. The gun nuts and lobby go crazy and he’s got to walk back his rational statement for the sake of advertising revenue.

He was right the first time.. this sort of weapon has no business in the hands of the general public.

6

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29 comments

1

SDC Tue, Sep 11, 2012 2:20:55pm

Uh, Locker? I don't want you to get your panties in a bunch, but there are currently around 250 THOUSAND legally-owned machine guns in the hands of the general public; they are all registered, with tax paid, and, since 1934, only TWO have ever been used in murders (one of whom was a police officer who hired himself out as a hit-man). Now, that being the case, and since civilians have demonstrated that they are at LEAST as responsible as the po-po when owning these things, what is your particular problem with them?

2

Locker Tue, Sep 11, 2012 2:24:10pm

Where is your limit man? Should you be allowed to own belt fed .50 caliber machine guns? LAW rockets? C4? Cannons? Artillery? Seriously what is your problem with gun regulations? Do you have some psychological need to have enough firepower to kill everyone in your neighborhood?

3

Decatur Deb Tue, Sep 11, 2012 2:33:37pm

I can own a belt-fed Ma Deuce, and a cannon. (Never checked for artillery, but it's probably OK with inert projectile filler.)

You haven't met my neighbors.

4

SDC Tue, Sep 11, 2012 2:46:49pm

Once again, you need to check what the ACTUAL laws are on these things before you fly off the handle; with the proper licences, ALL of these things are legal for civilians to own and use, and the remarkable lack of mass murders being committed with any of them shows that ordinary people are a whole lot more responsible than you'd like to give them credit for. The basic "thinking" behind people like you goes as follows: "I don't think should be trusted with potentially-dangerous things, therefore I don't think that anyone ELSE should be trusted with those potentially-dangerous things either." This is not far off the "thinking" of the religious right, who think that allowing birth control is as good as handing out golden tickets to teenagers, giving them the right to fuck whomever they want, whenever they want; therefore, their response is "ban it, and it'll go away".

5

Decatur Deb Tue, Sep 11, 2012 2:57:52pm

North-South Skirmish Association Wheeled Gun Night Competition:

6

Daniel Ballard Tue, Sep 11, 2012 2:59:38pm

Destro why the hell did you equate "general public" and scumbags or "wrong slimy hands"?

That's insulting to every responsible citizen, gun owner or not.

As far as powerful weapons goes, I have no fear of them in responsible hands. I do however fear even the lightest weapons in the hands of felons, rapists and robbers. That fear underpins my ownership of some quite ordinary firearms at home and work.

When did we last have a crime committed by a licensed owner of a heavy weapon like a cannon or tank or heavy machine gun? If voter fraud is non existent, leading to the thought we need not have voter ID laws, why would we ban the kind of weapon possession that has not resulted in a crime? When did a bank robber use a tank or howitzer outside of a couple dubious fictional films?

If we fear someone might do that someday, why would that logic not apply to vote fraud?

7

researchok Tue, Sep 11, 2012 3:17:35pm

re: #6 Daniel Ballard

When did we last have a crime committed by a licensed owner of a heavy weapon like a cannon or tank or heavy machine gun? If voter fraud is non existent, leading to the thought we need not have voter ID laws, why would we ban the kind of weapon possession that has not resulted in a crime? When did a bank robber use a tank or howitzer outside of a couple dubious fictional films?

Your point is well taken. A criminal will use any weapons he can get his hands on, legal, illegal or homemade.

Like I said earlier, I'm all for gun rights.

With the appropriate restrictions.

8

Dark_Falcon Tue, Sep 11, 2012 5:04:45pm

re: #6 Daniel Ballard

Destro why the hell did you equate "general public" and scumbags or "wrong slimy hands"?

That's insulting to every responsible citizen, gun owner or not.

As far as powerful weapons goes, I have no fear of them in responsible hands. I do however fear even the lightest weapons in the hands of felons, rapists and robbers. That fear underpins my ownership of some quite ordinary firearms at home and work.

When did we last have a crime committed by a licensed owner of a heavy weapon like a cannon or tank or heavy machine gun? If voter fraud is non existent, leading to the thought we need not have voter ID laws, why would we ban the kind of weapon possession that has not resulted in a crime? When did a bank robber use a tank or howitzer outside of a couple dubious fictional films?

If we fear someone might do that someday, why would that logic not apply to vote fraud?

Just so, except that Locker put up this Page and Destro hasn't commented on its thread as of yer.

9

EiMitch Tue, Sep 11, 2012 7:10:41pm

I can understand the average Joe wanting a gun for self-defense. Whether thats the right decision is another matter. But I can understand wanting it.

I can understand a Joe with extra money wanting a machine-gun to take it to an appropriate shooting range and blow s*** up. Who am I to judge such hobbies?

I just don't understand a Joe wanting a machine-gun thats as easy to conceal as a handgun. There's nothing about it being so small that makes it any more fun to shoot. And where the hell do you live that you need that much firepower for self-defense? If you can afford something special like this, why not instead spend it on something that further improves your chances of survival, like moving the f*** outta such a warzone?

This is a specialized weapon for specialized purposes. Why the hell are we debating whether it belongs in the hands of civilians?

ckkatz Tue, Sep 11, 2012 7:15:42pm

re: #5 Decatur Deb

And this...

‘MythBusters’ cannon ball accident caused by ‘unforeseen bounce’

[Link: www.washingtonpost.com...]

"The Discovery Channel show “MythBusters” made a serious case for “don’t try this at home” when one of its science experiments involving homemade cannons went awry, crashing through a San Francisco-area home and landing on a minivan during taping on Dec.

ckkatz Tue, Sep 11, 2012 7:18:03pm

What I find most interesting about the weapon is it's newly designed round, the 4.6x30. That round, and FN's 5.7x28 are designed to defeat body armor (bullet-proof vests), car doors, etc, at close in range. This is something that traditional submachineguns which use standard pistol cartridges, cannot do. (Or at least do not do well.)

Also because of the smallness of the round, the weapon generally has a higher round capacity than more 'traditional' pistols and submachine guns. And finally, it is reputed to have less recoil, making the weapon more controllable.

Regarding gun ownership, what can be owned, and the reasons for owning, there certainly is a lot of very hot ongoing debate right now.

William Barnett-Lewis Tue, Sep 11, 2012 8:54:14pm

HK, true to their roots as refugees from the third reich, hates giving good weapons to civilians. They might shoot back...

Recoil, true to their roots as a really bad imitation of Playboy for the gun masturbators, hates pissing off advertisers. They might stop paying...

My solution? Don't buy a bad POS magazine and buy your firearms from companies that don't go out of their way to support fascism.

(My most recent purchase? A 1942 Mauser HSc)

ckkatz Wed, Sep 12, 2012 1:41:17am

re: #12 William Barnett-Lewis

Always thought the Hsc was a cool looking pistol. .32 or .380?

Haven't fired the Hsc but the blowback design of the ppk and FEG p63 never impressed me. KelTec's P32, even though it's lighter, has a lot less recoil with its locked breech design.

Can't say I've heard bad things about H-K, but haven't spent much time with their products.

And yup, periodicals these days cannot afford to upset their advertisers, who pay most of the freight.

SDC Wed, Sep 12, 2012 3:06:55am

"I just don't understand a Joe wanting a machine-gun thats as easy to conceal as a handgun."

EiMitch, the MP7 is "pocket-sized" in comparison to a FULL-SIZED submachinegun, and is slightly larger than an IPad; it's actually larger than a number of other designs that were actually in production before 1986, and which are therefore legally-owned by civilians in the US. I don't expect you to know such things, but I DO expect you to do a little research before reaching a conclusion.

Obdicut Wed, Sep 12, 2012 3:09:50am

re: #1 SDC

Uh, Locker? I don't want you to get your panties in a bunch, but there are currently around 250 THOUSAND legally-owned machine guns in the hands of the general public;

And you can't carry them around and conceal them easily, so they're really not that worrying.

I don't give much of a shit about the regulation of 'assault weapons' because they're rarely used in crimes and are hard to conceal. I'm concerned, as are all the cop friends I have, with the regulation of handguns and other concealable weapons.

There is obviously a point where the weapon becomes too dangerous for us to allow.

Obdicut Wed, Sep 12, 2012 3:13:38am

re: #14 SDC

It kind of reminds me of the m84a Skorpion.

SDC Wed, Sep 12, 2012 9:36:29am

And the MP7 is actually larger than both the CZ Skorpion and the IMI Micro-Uzi, numerous examples of both of which are already legally-owned in the US, so once again, the uninformed fear-mongering shown by Locker in his original post is shown to be way off-base.

Sophia77 Wed, Sep 12, 2012 10:26:57am

Well, frankly, I don't understand why people need machine guns.

Are they for hunting? Self-defense?

Why can't I have a tank or a B-52 (apart from money?)

Where do you guys draw the line here?

The fact is gun deaths in America, every year, run into the tens of thousands. Why don't you think this is a problem? A great many of these would simply never occur if the guns weren't there in the first place - they're accidents, crimes of passion, idiotic spur of the moment street shootings - but in some cases mass murders by politically motivated and/or mentally ill individuals with heavy duty fire power.

How could you watch Gabby Giffords at the Convention the other night and not be appalled by what happened to her? She was shot in the face and several of her assistants and constituents were wounded or killed.

What's it going to take?

Daniel Ballard Wed, Sep 12, 2012 10:47:31am

re: #6 Daniel Ballard

Destro why the hell did you equate "general public" and scumbags or "wrong slimy hands"?

That's insulting to every responsible citizen, gun owner or not.

As far as powerful weapons goes, I have no fear of them in responsible hands. I do however fear even the lightest weapons in the hands of felons, rapists and robbers. That fear underpins my ownership of some quite ordinary firearms at home and work.

When did we last have a crime committed by a licensed owner of a heavy weapon like a cannon or tank or heavy machine gun? If voter fraud is non existent, leading to the thought we need not have voter ID laws, why would we ban the kind of weapon possession that has not resulted in a crime? When did a bank robber use a tank or howitzer outside of a couple dubious fictional films?

If we fear someone might do that someday, why would that logic not apply to vote fraud?

Oh heck I so should have directed that at Locker. Sorry Destro!

William Barnett-Lewis Wed, Sep 12, 2012 11:28:20am

re: #13 ckkatz

.32 ACP. Nice little high quality EDC for me when I am somewhere I feel the need to CC. Having moved away from the a bad part of a large city, I don't do that much these days.

Locker Wed, Sep 12, 2012 11:39:15am

re: #19 Daniel Ballard

I didn't equate it at all. That wasn't my quote it was the guy from Recoil magazine but he wasn't equating them either. Let me paraphrase...

This gun is for use against perps (scumbags/slimy) by law enforcement/military and is not for sporting use by the general public.

Did you get a chance to look at the full article text?

SDC Wed, Sep 12, 2012 12:12:37pm

"Need" has nothing to do with it, Sophia, no more than people "need" alcohol, or race cars, or private planes, or millions of other things that can be used to hurt or kill people if used maliciously. Now, if you look past the postage-stamp-sized tidbits that the media churns out for mass consumption, a couple of very interesting things stand out immediately; first, Americans kill each other by beating, stomping, and kicking each other to death more often than the citizens of most other countries kill each other by ALL METHODS COMBINED. Does this mean that Americans have more arms, legs, fists and feet than the citizens of those other countries, or is there a more rational explanation available here? Second, those murders that do happen in the US are concentrated in such a small specific cohort that simply saying "more guns = more murders" does a huge disservice to the problem, and to everyone invloved. Almost half of all murders in the US are committed by young black males under the age of 25, almost always against other young black males under the age of 25, and despite the fact that the vast majority of that cohort can't buy a gun of any sort legally to begin with (no different than saying "if we require a prescription for aspirin, that'll stop the drug cartels from smuggling heroin"). The deaths from speeding and drunk driving ALSO run into the tens of thousands each year, but since no politician is going to ride a wave of "lets ban alcohol and fast cars" into office, no-one really gives a shit about those deaths, do they?

Locker Wed, Sep 12, 2012 12:16:21pm

re: #22 SDC

I've got one word for you.

Paragraphs.

SDC Wed, Sep 12, 2012 1:10:44pm

Nothing substantive to say? Maybe I've overestimated the ability of people to read.

Sophia77 Wed, Sep 12, 2012 2:09:50pm

Maybe you just have nothing substantive to say, sir.

Driving is not shooting. And there are far, far more cars on the road than people running around with guns.

And - we do, in case you hadn't noticed, have speed limits and laws against driving under the influence.

But, we continue to hear endless propaganda about Boys And Their (lethal) Toys and I think there's just no excuse for it, period.

Sophia77 Wed, Sep 12, 2012 2:10:36pm

So grow up.

ckkatz Wed, Sep 12, 2012 2:12:36pm

re: #18 Sophia77

I don't know about a military jet...

But you could own a military propeller driven plane of World War 2 vintage
[Link: www.cafb29b24.org...]

or an armored vehicle.
[Link: armyjeeps.net...]

Of course, I cannot think of any reason why I would want either. Mileage is lousy and it would probably upset the neighbors on my suburban street.

ckkatz Wed, Sep 12, 2012 2:23:00pm

re: #20 William Barnett-Lewis

It is a indeed well built pistol.

I agree with you. If I am concerned about going some place to the point I feel I need a firearm to protect myself, perhaps it's time for me to re-consider where, why, and/or how, I am going.

SDC Thu, Sep 13, 2012 7:10:46am

"And there are far, far more cars on the road than people running around with guns."

There are more privately-owned GUNS in the US than there are cars, so you need to do a little bit of research, methinks.

"And - we do, in case you hadn't noticed, have speed limits and laws against driving under the influence."

Just as we have plenty of laws against people killing each other (with or without guns), people shooting each other, people threatening each other, and so on and so forth. Why is that good enough for you when it comes to some things, but not others?

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